Riedt's Gravity Theory

1 Peter Riedt Riedt's Gravity Theory Tuesday 7 January 2020
2 Odd Bodkin Re :Riedt's Gravity Theory Tuesday 7 January 2020
3 tjrob137 Re :Riedt's Gravity Theory Tuesday 7 January 2020
4 Mitch Raemsch Re :Riedt's Gravity Theory Tuesday 7 January 2020
5 Peter Riedt Re :Riedt's Gravity Theory Wednesday 8 January 2020
6 Nicolaas Vroom Re :Riedt's Gravity Theory Sunday 12 January 2020
7 Ned Latham Re :Riedt's Gravity Theory Sunday 12 January 2020
8 tjrob137 Re :Riedt's Gravity Theory Thursday 16 January 2020
9 Chuck Oberwise Re :Riedt's Gravity Theory Thursday 16 January 2020
10 Python Re :Riedt's Gravity Theory Thursday 16 January 2020
11 Chuck Oberwise Re :Riedt's Gravity Theory Thursday 16 January 2020

Riedt's Gravity Theory
11 posts by 8 authors
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/sci.physics.relativity/bmq_qXWUDyk


1 Riedt's Gravity Theory

From: Peter Riedt
Datum: Tuesday 7 January 2020
Riedt's Gravity Theory

Gravity is a force which acts on every body that has mass. A force must have an originating entity; it does not appear out of nothing. The gravity force is caused by an invisible agent, the aether, but visibility is not a requirement for existence and effect. Also, for a force to act on a body, it must be able to be in contact with it.

The universe is a mechanical construct based on two principles:

1. The universe consists of aether and matter.
2. The aether is at rest.

For the elusive and invisible aether to be the ultimate agent responsible for the phenomenon of gravitational forces it should possess only two attributes:

1. The aether is everywhere where matter is not.
2. The aether is compressible.

The suns matter compresses the surrounding aether forming a gravity sphere. The radius of the solar gravity sphere (rsgs) is calculated in my theory.

Objects in the solar system such as planets are subject to two forces generated by the compressed aether. These forces may have been called schubkraft and staukraft by Kepler if he had lived long enough to complete his work.

My theory describes the cause and mechanism of gravity, eccentricity and the inclination of planets. Click here to Reply


2 Riedt's Gravity Theory

From: Odd Bodkin
Datum: Tuesday 7 January 2020
Peter Riedt wrote:
> Riedt's Gravity Theory

Gravity is a force which acts on every body that has mass. A force must have an originating entity; it does not appear out of nothing. The gravity force is caused by an invisible agent, the aether, but visibility is not a requirement for existence and effect. Also, for a force to act on a body, it must be able to be in contact with it.

The universe is a mechanical construct based on two principles:

1. The universe consists of aether and matter.
2. The aether is at rest.

For the elusive and invisible aether to be the ultimate agent responsible for the phenomenon of gravitational forces it should possess only two attributes:

1. The aether is everywhere where matter is not.
2. The aether is compressible.

The suns matter compresses the surrounding aether forming a gravity sphere. The radius of the solar gravity sphere (rsgs) is calculated in my theory.

So you say. Calculate then. If not, its a bluff, a pretense, a fraud.

>

Objects in the solar system such as planets are subject to two forces generated by the compressed aether. These forces may have been called schubkraft and staukraft by Kepler if he had lived long enough to complete his work.

My theory describes the cause and mechanism of gravity, eccentricity and the inclination of planets.

-- Odd Bodkin Maker of fine toys, tools, tables


3 Riedt's Gravity Theory

From: tjrob137
Datum: Tuesday 7 January 2020
On 1/7/20 4:26 AM, Peter Riedt wrote:
> Riedt's Gravity Theory [...]

So calculate the general shape of planetary orbits. Then calculate the precession of Mercury's perihelion. If you cannot do that you have nothing.

Tom Roberts


4 Riedt's Gravity Theory

From: Mitch Raemsch
Datum: Tuesday 7 January 2020
On Tuesday, January 7, 2020 at 2:26:24 AM UTC-8, Peter Riedt wrote:
> Riedt's Gravity Theory

Gravity is a force which acts on every body that has mass.

They say light does not have mass...? But by gravity curve light's motion parabola curves Pete. As detected at Sobral.

The Solar atmosphere scatters light in all directions giving an average that we didn't observe. We found the one thing only gravity would do to that light. Only gravity gives the observed result not the solar atmosphere.

Mitchell Raemsch


5 Riedt's Gravity Theory

From: Peter Riedt
Datum: Wednesday 8 January 2020
On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 5:09:44 AM UTC+8, Mitch Raemsch wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 7, 2020 at 2:26:24 AM UTC-8, Peter Riedt wrote:
> > Riedt's Gravity Theory

Gravity is a force which acts on every body that has mass.

>

They say light does not have mass...? But by gravity curve light's motion parabola curves Pete. As detected at Sobral.

The Solar atmosphere scatters light in all directions giving an average that we didn't observe. We found the one thing only gravity would do to that light. Only gravity gives the observed result not the solar atmosphere.

Mitchell Raemsch

Yes,

Peter


6 Riedt's Gravity Theory

From: Nicolaas Vroom
Datum: Sunday 12 January 2020
- show quoted text - And how do you do that using (full blow) general relativity? without any approximation?

To do the same using Newton's Law is rather simple. The problem is that the answer is wrong.

The general idea is that you first need the x,y,z,t coordinates of all the planets of the solar system at a sequence of events t0, t1, t2, t3, t4 a duration dt apart. You can use the book by Jean Meus or Peter Duffett-Smith.
The second step (and most difficult) is to calculate the masses of all the objects involved based on these observations. To do that you need Newton's Law.
The third step is to calculate the precession of Mercury at a certain moment in the future.
When you do that over a period of roughly 50000 years you will see that the path of the perihelion follows a horseshoe curve. This curve depends on the place of the Sun in our galaxy.

To do the same using general relativity is much more difficult. The general idea is that you first need the x,y,z,t coordinates of all the planets of the solar system at a sequence of events t0, t1, t2, t3, t4 a duration dt apart. You can use the book by Jean Meus or Peter Duffett-Smith.
The second step is to calculate the metric parameters gab and the ten components Tab in order to calculate the gravitational field.

The book "Introducing Einsteins Relativity" by Ray d'Inverno discusses the "Advance of the perihelion of Mercury" in paragraph 15.3 However, only one planet is discussed as a test particle and this is not enough to study the solar system.

A better approach is the book Gravitation by MTW. Chapter 18 and specific 18.1 "The linearized theory of Gravity", I think is much better. When you study that chapter you get an idea hoe extremely difficult GR is compared to Newton's Law.

The same message you also get when you study pages 310 and 311 from the book "The evolution of scientific thought from Newton to Einstein" by A. d'Abro.

The general message is that it is extremely difficult to claim that GR is better to simulate the solar system than Newton's Law based on actual observations.


7 Riedt's Gravity Theory

From: Ned Latham
Datum: Sunday 12 January 2020
Nicolaas Vroom wrote:
> tjrob137 wrote:
> >

So calculate the general shape of planetary orbits. Then calculate the precession of Mercury's perihelion. If you cannot do that you have nothing.

>

And how do you do that using (full blow) general relativity? without any approximation?

To do the same using Newton's Law is rather simple. The problem is that the answer is wrong.

A field effect function, phi(), has been postulated which fixes that. It is as yet undefined for lack of observational data from which to derive it it, but essentially what it does is apply a "relativistic" effect la gamma() to the calculation of gravitational force rather than to the calculation in SR of the mass/momentum of the moving object. With it, Newton's Law of Gravity becomes

F = G phi(v,) m1 m2 / d^2

where v is the speed of the moving object relative to the gravitational source, and is its angular velocity. Given low spin rates, is not significant, and phi(v) is a good approximation.

Of necessity, it returns 1 when v and are zero, and matches gamma() at the speed of Mercury in the region of perihelion.

(Sorry about the ; I don't have a theta.)

----snip----


8 Riedt's Gravity Theory

From: tjrob137
Datum: Thursday 16 January 2020
On 1/12/20 8:32 AM, Nicolaas Vroom wrote:
> On Tuesday, 7 January 2020 19:24:21 UTC+1, tjrob137 wrote:
>> So calculate the general shape of planetary orbits. Then calculate the precession of Mercury's perihelion. If you cannot do that you have nothing.
>

And how do you do that using (full blow) general relativity? without any approximation?

You don't, because the GR solution for two bodies is not known (in closed form), much less a calculation involving the sun and all the planets (which is required to avoid the approximation of ignoring the other planets).

But no matter, because we can determine that several approximations we normally make are excellent, and affect the predictions to an extent that is much smaller than observational resolutions.

In physics, exact calculations are never required when comparing with observations or measurements, because the latter are never exact. Asking for calculations "without any approximations" is downright silly, in physics. Instead, ask for approximations that are more accurate then the corresponding measurement resolutions.

The only important feature of exact calculations in physics, when they can be preformed at all, is in UNDERSTANDING -- it is much easier to understand that a planetary orbit is an ellipse with the sun at one focus, than to make sense of the reams of data required for a computer simulation.
> To do the same using Newton's Law is rather simple.

No, it is INCREDIBLY complex, and has never been done, because in NM even the three-body problem has no exact and complete solution; the problem of the solar system is FAR too complicated to solve in closed form -- one MUST make approximations to get any answer at all.

> The problem is that the answer is wrong. [... discussion indicating he does not understand the difficulties]

The "place of our sun in the galaxy" is one of the least of the problems involved; it pales in comparison to calculating the effects due to the other planets.

But sure, to obtain an answer "without approximation" requires one account for every massive object in the universe, an utterly hopeless task.
> To do the same using general relativity is much more difficult.

That is true for just about everything. But such an exact calculation has never been done in either NM or GR. And never will be.

One of the most important aspects of physics is being able to identify appropriate approximations, and how to determine whether they are more accurate then measurements, or not.

One of my favorites is showing that SR can indeed be used to analyze experiments at the LHC. That's because each event lasts for less than a microsecond, and during such a short time the appropriate locally-inertial frame moves relative to the apparatus by a distance that is more than a million times smaller than the instrument's resolution.

> The general message is that it is extremely difficult to claim that GR is better to simulate the solar system than Newton's Law based on actual observations.

Again, you must pick your approximations carefully -- "better" is not an appropriate comparison here. Certainly for mercury's perihelion GR is more accurate than NM, and to most that counts as "better". But even so, when calculating the perihelion in GR a usual approximation is that the mass of mercury is negligible and can be ignored, and the effects of the other planets are as in NM. These approximations yield answers more accurate than observations, so they are suitable.

Tom Roberts


9 Riedt's Gravity Theory

From: Chuck Oberwise
Datum: Thursday 16 January 2020
Tom Roberts wrote:

>> To do the same using general relativity is much more difficult.
>

That is true for just about everything. But such an exact calculation has never been done in either NM or GR. And never will be.

so true. To accomplish that you have to use my _Divergent Matter_ of the Moving Objects model.


10 Riedt's Gravity Theory

From: Python
Datum: Thursday 16 January 2020
Nym Shifting Troll, aka Chuck Oberwise wrote:
> Tom Roberts wrote:
>>>

To do the same using general relativity is much more difficult.

>>

That is true for just about everything. But such an exact calculation has never been done in either NM or GR. And never will be.

>

so true. To accomplish that you have to use my _Divergent Matter_ of the Moving Objects model.

It can be used as it does not exist.


11 Riedt's Gravity Theory

From: Chuck Oberwise
Datum: Thursday 16 January 2020
Python wrote:

> Nym Shifting Troll, aka Chuck Oberwise wrote:
>> Tom Roberts wrote:
>>>>

To do the same using general relativity is much more difficult.

>>>

That is true for just about everything. But such an exact calculation has never been done in either NM or GR. And never will be.

>>

so true. To accomplish that you have to use my _Divergent Matter_ of the Moving Objects model.

>

It can be used as it does not exist.

sure it does. You are just _not paying attention_. My _Divergent Matter_ of the Moving Objects model defaults to the simplified mathematics of GR, whereas GR enters as a _Special Case_.

Back to USENET overview USENET
Back to my home page Contents of This Document